[concurrency-interest] padding in Exchanger

Joe Bowbeer joe.bowbeer at gmail.com
Tue Jan 17 18:35:11 EST 2012

I like the generic annotation idea.

Note that optimizer/obfuscator/compactor tools that are commonly used in
some tool chains (e.g., proguard w/Android), will need to be instructed to
preserve these annotations.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Brian Goetz wrote:

> Having the VM automagically figure this out would be great, but it seems a
> cheaper / faster-to-market solution to give developers the ability to
> detect false sharing during development and testing and on the basis of
> such observations give padding hints (say, with annotations) that the VM
> could use or ignore as it saw fit.  False sharing will happen with a
> relatively few concurrent building blocks (like, say, Exchanger) and
> maintainers of such classes are probably (willing to be) on the lookout for
> it anyway.
> On 1/17/2012 1:33 PM, Nathan Reynolds wrote:
>> If an application is contending on a cache line, then the processors
>> will look 100% busy but very little work will get done. Fixing the
>> contention will almost always get huge gains.
>> Let's say the contention is due to 2 objects being next to each other.
>> The solution is to separate them by moving 1 object to another place in
>> the heap. Moving an object in the heap is fairly cheap. GC does it a lot!
>> Let's say the contention is due to 2 fields being next to each other.
>> The solution is to separate them by rearranging the fields. This is
>> probably expensive. Once that is done, the contention will go away but
>> the memory will increase. Very few locks actually contend. Even fewer
>> fields contend on cache lines. So, the memory impact should be fairly
>> small and probably insignificant.
>> Nathan Reynolds
>> <http://psr.us.oracle.com/**wiki/index.php/User:Nathan_**Reynolds<http://psr.us.oracle.com/wiki/index.php/User:Nathan_Reynolds>>
>> |
>> Consulting Member of Technical Staff | 602.333.9091
>> Oracle PSR Engineering <http://psr.us.oracle.com/> | Server Technology
>> On 1/17/2012 11:03 AM, Vitaly Davidovich wrote:
>>> Doing dynamic re-layout and contention adjustment seems nice in
>>> thought but how practical is that? I can't see how that would be cheap
>>> enough where it's worth the cost. What if the app goes through phases
>>> of contention? Initially high but then no sharing - would the bloated
>>> object layout be worth it at that point? Seems like this is a place
>>> where explicit developer instructions is better than heuristics with
>>> potentially expensive consequences.
>>> Sent from my phone
>>> On Jan 17, 2012 12:44 PM, "Nathan Reynolds"
>>> <nathan.reynolds at oracle.com <mailto:nathan.reynolds@**oracle.com<nathan.reynolds at oracle.com>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>    Assuming that the JVM can optimize for true and false sharing (and
>>>    that is a big assumption at the moment), then you can focus your
>>>    time on writing useful code. Furthermore, optimizing for true and
>>>    false sharing will never be able to fix actual data contention. We
>>>    still need clever ways of sharing data without bottlenecks.
>>>    Nathan Reynolds
>>>    <http://psr.us.oracle.com/**wiki/index.php/User:Nathan_**Reynolds<http://psr.us.oracle.com/wiki/index.php/User:Nathan_Reynolds>>
>>> |
>>>    Consulting Member of Technical Staff | 602.333.9091 <tel:602.333.9091
>>> >
>>>    Oracle PSR Engineering <http://psr.us.oracle.com/> | Server
>>> Technology
>>>    On 1/17/2012 10:29 AM, Ruslan Cheremin wrote:
>>>>    You made my day. Few months ago I was dreaming (in my blog) about
>>>>    complexity of false sharing prevention with padding. And come to two
>>>>    options, one better another. First one was @PreventFalseSharing
>>>>    annotation, next was atomatically contention detection and relocation
>>>>    of contended objects by JIT. Readers of my blog soon pointed me to
>>>>    @Contended annotation. And now you telling the second -- the best --
>>>>    option is also being explored!
>>>>    Just want to ask -- if all good things will be done by JIT -- what I
>>>>    will be paid for?
>>>>    2012/1/17 Nathan Reynolds<nathan.reynolds@**oracle.com<nathan.reynolds at oracle.com>>
>>>>  <mailto:nathan.reynolds@**oracle.com <nathan.reynolds at oracle.com>>:
>>>>>    It would be nice if the processor could effectively tell the JVM
>>>>> that false
>>>>>    sharing is happening.    It would be nice if the JVM could respond
>>>>> by moving
>>>>>    objects within the heap or fields with the class to avoid false
>>>>> sharing.
>>>>>    Thus, we don't have to pad or worry about placing @Contended or
>>>>> other
>>>>>    attributes into the class.
>>>>>    Intel was looking into to optimizing for true and false sharing.
>>>>>  They had a
>>>>>    prototype that worked but required restarting the JVM.    Oracle
>>>>> was looking
>>>>>    into dynamically relayout fields in objects.    I haven't heard
>>>>> anything from
>>>>>    either group for a while...    I haven't asked either.    *IF* a
>>>>> solution
>>>>>    becomes available, then it will be a while.    This is a very
>>>>> difficult thing
>>>>>    to do.
>>>>>    Nathan Reynolds | Consulting Member of Technical Staff |
>>>>> 602.333.9091  <tel:602.333.9091>
>>>>>    Oracle PSR Engineering | Server Technology
>>>>>    On 1/17/2012 9:35 AM, Vitaly Davidovich wrote:
>>>>>    OK I see what you mean now.    I imagine @Contended will be used
>>>>> with fields
>>>>>    rather than classes so when the JVM lays out an instance of the
>>>>> class I
>>>>>    assume it will do two-sided padding on the contended field if
>>>>> required or if
>>>>>    natural layout is such that prior fields already fill up a cache
>>>>> line then
>>>>>    only one sided is needed.
>>>>>    Sent from my phone
>>>>>    On Jan 17, 2012 11:27 AM, "Ruslan Cheremin"<cheremin at gmail.com>
>>>>>  <mailto:cheremin at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>    2012/1/17 Vitaly Davidovich<vitalyd at gmail.com>  <mailto:
>>>>>> vitalyd at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>     I think it's semantics - if you sometimes allocate with 64/128
>>>>>>> byte
>>>>>>>    alignment then if your object is smaller than 64/128 the rest of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>    space
>>>>>>>    is effectively padding.
>>>>>>    Agree. But in case of alignment you lose sense of "one-side" or
>>>>>> "two
>>>>>>    side" padding -- you do not need "two side padding", you just make
>>>>>>    sure object align on cache line boundary.
>>>>>>    Actually I was asked is my understanding of how @Contended
>>>>>> supposed to
>>>>>>    be implemented is right?
>>>>>>     Or are you saying you want an @Alignment annotation
>>>>>>>    instead so it's more general? What other uses of custom alignment
>>>>>>> do you
>>>>>>>    envision? Java is too high-level    and the underlying
>>>>>>> hardware/platform
>>>>>>>    too
>>>>>>>    abstracted away for a general purpose custom alignment hint, IMHO.
>>>>>>    No, I do not want such ugly thing to happen with java! It's enough
>>>>>> C
>>>>>>    for such things...
>>>>>>     Sent from my phone
>>>>>>>    On Jan 17, 2012 10:56 AM, "Ruslan Cheremin"<cheremin at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>  <mailto:cheremin at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>    Yes. As a practical matter though, until an @Contended attribute
>>>>>>>>>    or something like it is supported across JVMS (see list
>>>>>>>>> archives for
>>>>>>>>>    discussion), you cannot arrange reliable two-sided padding
>>>>>>>>>    for objects with mixed field types (ints, longs, refs that may
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>    either 32 or 64 bits, etc), so one-sided is the best you can do.
>>>>>>>>    By the way -- I was not thinking about @Contended as "make
>>>>>>>> padding for
>>>>>>>>    me". It seems for me like padding is only dirty hack, since
>>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>>>    better available. If I would control memory allocation (like JVM
>>>>>>>> does)
>>>>>>>>    I just can allocate @Contended objects on 64 (128... etc) bytes
>>>>>>>>    boundary. I do not have to "pad" them -- nor both, nor one side.
>>>>>>>> And I
>>>>>>>>    suppose @Contended implementation to do exactly this -- "use
>>>>>>>> special
>>>>>>>>    allocator for objects of that type, which allocate them on cache
>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>    boundary"
>>>>>>>>    Am I wrong here?
>>>>>>>>     -Doug
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